View Full Version : my project: gto build
goals:
break into 11's [aiming for 117-120 trap]
wide torque band
dont break anything
really though, im just doing this for the experience so im prepared for the next one i get.
this has been in the making for over a year, finally got $$$ to start it. lots of researching went into it. ill be doing everything myself, including tuning. ill be using a mustang dyno for before and after results and backing it up at the track.
im just worried about the cast crank. look at it funny and it might snap :o also the 18spline...it hasnt snapped, yet. ive pulled a couple high 1.7 60' [wasnt comfortable going faster] so im not that worried about it, and its relatively cheap to replace. the plan is if it blows...either grab another engine and go for 500awhp+ or buy a whole nother one and use this one as parts.
list of mods:
td04-15g's - unclipped in 9b housing from MTC
supra pump
xtd stg4 2800lb pressure plate
maximal solid mounts
400cc dsm blacktops
safc1
abs delete
ngk bkr7e @ .030
dsm sidemounts
lc1 wideband, gm 3bar map
scanmaster3 + evoscan 2.8 to log
stuff already on the car: ac/cruise/bunch of other stuff delete,straight pipe with 1 resonator, knockoff blitz intake filter,devils own meth kit stg1[pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/ypipe.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/meth.jpg) 630cc/min, hks evc iii, hks tt iii, apexi boost gauge, dsm 1g bov recircd, currently sitting at 3450lb
before:
13.04@103mph
3700 lb race weight (including me)
9b@13psi dropping to 10.5psi by 6k
afr 10.1-3, 20deg timing
230awhp/240awtq
dyno chart[pic] (http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9158/apr211.jpg)
for comparison, stock evox did 190awhp, c63 amg did 310rwhp, stock 2010 gtr did 405awhp.
after:
first round of dyno tuning
15g@15psi
afr 10.8-10-10.3, 15deg-20deg by redline
327awhp/317awtq (324wtq)
dyno chart coming soon
day 1:
got evoscan 2.8 up and running with OBDI. turns out you need a null modem cable to make it work. did a couple logs, nothing to report, everything looks good. have mmcd+palm as backup in the car.
day 2:
installed lc1 wideband[pic] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/lc1.jpg). placed it in the stock o2 spot and using its narrowband signal as well. logging on evoscan via com4.
sent out injectors to get cleaned.
day 3:
testing of egrt input on ecu to use gm 3bar map[pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/maptest.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/gmmaptest.jpg) [pic3] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/egrttest.jpg) [pic4] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/egrtground.jpg) [pic5] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/map.jpg) [pic6] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/maptest.jpg). pin is there, circuitry is there, just wires are missing. tested limits, works. installed map and tested with evoscan, works. redid calculation in program to get accurate result. logging on evoscan now.
installed safc same time[pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/safctest.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/controllersafc.jpg). zerod everything out. went for a drive to test, good to go.
yesterday:
replaced plugs with bkr6e, gapped at 35. replaced wires with oem. i really need a ypipe with coupler, i hate putting the stocker back on.
got injectors back, all flowed @90%.
installed them. have 2 spare.
current safc settings: L30%[-20@1,2,3,4,4.5,6,7]/H50%[same as low]
started car and its all good, o2's cycling, ~14/15 on the wideband sustained. havent had a chance to go for a drive yet.
today:
tuned safc settings: L25%[-20 to 3k, -18 to 7k]/H40%[same as low]. ecu goes open loop right at 40%tps.
tested wot to 4k so far, starts around 12afr from 2500 and ends at 10.6afr so far. 0 knock with 10psi. started raining had to stop. waiting for sunny day to finish. once i get 14psi tuned ill throw in the supra pump and start again.
im tuning 500rpm at a time, so starting from 2k i go to 2.5k. then 2k to 3k, and so on. still waiting on my turbos to be made :mad:
1991MitsuGTOVR4
04-22-11, 12:17 AM
Damn, you've been busy lately eh? Glad to see the build is going smoothly, hopefully I can start something similar soon.
Vr4Much?
04-22-11, 09:02 AM
Damn, you've been busy lately eh? Glad to see the build is going smoothly, hopefully I can start something similar soon.
those wheels you got are hot shit, look soooo good on almost every car
my mr2:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/luca_0008/012ss2-1.jpg
Vr4Much?
04-22-11, 09:02 AM
I think I should delete abs and AWS too, useless
ADP still has my turbos, hopefully they will be ready by next week.
and looking for a pressure plate as well.
man living on this side of the border sucks for aftermarket parts
surreal
04-28-11, 10:17 AM
thanks for posting! looks fun! needs pics though!
we need more build threads on here.
btw i think youll be fine with the cast crank. its not *that* weak ... lots of people have put decent power through them.
i would also add an afpr to your list. will help you get more fuel if/when needed and will also help since you dont have timing control.
also... those are awesome 'before' numbers. what mods? with i/dp/ebc i was able to trap a couple mph faster but my et was nowhere close to a 13 flat!
day 6:
set base timing to 5deg. i had it set at 4 before i had my meth [down from 10 stock jdm] to help with knock. ill be playing with this as i get deeper into tuning. from all ive read about td04 = timing>boost.
went out to do some tuning. only got a 2nd gear pull to redline [10.3 afr] then it started raining -_- i hate vancouver weather.
having some issues with the + battery terminal loosening up after hard pulls, gonna have to find something to remedy this.
thanks for posting! looks fun! needs pics though!
we need more build threads on here.
btw i think youll be fine with the cast crank. its not *that* weak ... lots of people have put decent power through them.
i would also add an afpr to your list. will help you get more fuel if/when needed and will also help since you dont have timing control.
also... those are awesome 'before' numbers. what mods? with i/dp/ebc i was able to trap a couple mph faster but my et was nowhere close to a 13 flat!
pics are coming, im just gathering them. they will be up mid next week.
highest power i know of on the cast was by mellon of 3si running a little over 500awhp before he spun a bearing. i think with a conservative tune ill be safe for a while.
im glad you mentioned afpr. i was deciding on the afpr as well. really wanted to keep this build as tight budget as possible. i came to conclusion that with 450cc i can still tune the idle even if the base pressure was 58psi (highest reported i found with hotwired supra). i can make my injectors 290cc even at that high of a base pressure through the afc. however, i will be running the stock wiring with my own relay system and "realmcoy"'s solution of dual resistors to the supras voltage transition problems. but if it does come down to it, i will get the honda fpr+supporting.
my before number mods are listed in the track times list thread. basically bpu with some weight reduction. the track was really well prepped. slipped the clutch good and even had 35psi in my tires to save my drivetrain, lift to shift etc. ive gone as slow as 14.5@103 spinning like mad through the 60'
i lied about the pictures, they will come once i start installing turbos lol
an update though, i took my turbo parts back from ADP for taking so long to make [3 months+] and ended up ordering 15g's from midwest turbo in cali. they should be here sometime next week. gonna be ordering turbo gaskets/trinkets & pressure plate next week then its time for surgery :D .
1991MitsuGTOVR4
05-07-11, 03:00 AM
i lied about the pictures, they will come once i start installing turbos lol
an update though, i took my turbo parts back from ADP for taking so long to make [3 months+] and ended up ordering 15g's from midwest turbo in cali. they should be here sometime next week. gonna be ordering turbo gaskets/trinkets & pressure plate next week then its time for surgery :D .
Would you be selling the 16T's then? I guess they still need a rebuild though..
yeah i gonna figure out what to do with them...
think of them as just the compressor and td04HL turbine, the rest of it is useless so it would have to be machined/rebuilt/etc. i dont know maybe $300+shipping for both turbos just so i get some money back that i put into them if anyone is interested?
so just a quick mini teaser update: i picked up my turbos from the post today, they look in great shape. im gonna open them up tomorrow to double check everything and will put up the pics ive been promising.
edit: updated.
started tearing into the motor yesterday, took a bunch of pics and my camera decided to die on me lmao. when i get pics up its gonna be a huge dump.
the 15g's
[pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/15g2.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/wastegates.jpg) [pic3] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/15g.jpg) [video1] (http://s368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/?action=view¤t=15gtesting.mp4) [pic4] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/15g4.jpg)
comparison with volvo 16t [pic5] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/15g3.jpg)
did a pressure test [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/pressuretesting.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/pressuretesting1.jpg)and found a huge leak at the rear oring and throttle body gasket. will be ordering those shortly. most of the piping is off, radiator is out, and ran out of time to sleep for work next day [today]. lots of pb blaster used.
gonna be replacing the main radiator fan with a a/c one that i still have from my parts car and wiring them both to come on together.
as the engine bay sits now [pic] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/day1.jpg)
also bought a xtd stage 4 pressure plate that im going to be trying out after doing some research. im thinking of getting the turbos in and everything running properly first before tearing it back down for the clutch job to eliminate multiple sources of problems. also ordered a gto mr throttle cable to replace my ghetto modded cc delete one.
91gtojim
05-23-11, 06:14 PM
where did you get the mr throttle cable?
from this guy: http://forum.canada3si.org/showthread.php?t=5381
pm him
or alternatively evil empire performance
both shops are in the UK
lots of pics added to posts 1,2&14
many more to come as i get more done.
before and afters will come once im done the build to show the car from stock form [mods&body] to how it sits after.
1991MitsuGTOVR4
05-25-11, 06:46 PM
lots of pics added to posts 1,2&14
many more to come as i get more done.
before and afters will come once im done the build to show the car from stock form [mods&body] to how it sits after.
So epic man, can't wait to do the same thing!
Vr4Much?
05-27-11, 12:43 AM
lookin good, hopefully this will be done soon. I just got a safc, just need 660 injectors and a tune. I'm not aiming at 600whp anymore, don't want to break shit.
had a few spare hours today.
got a couple nice surprises...
both turbos are exposed now [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontturbo.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearturbo.jpg). the rear heatshield was very easy to take out i dont know what all the fuss is about.
here is the front [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontturbocomp.jpg)
here is the back [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearturbocomp.jpg) surprise! the blades ate something. both turbos are super tight though.
moving to the bottom, got the downpipe off [fuckin ebay dp sucks, took forever]. went to take rear precat off and stripped the stay bolt :mad: [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/precatbolt.jpg). gotta figure something out for this cause my angle grinder is too big to fit in that spot. same time noticed my inner steering rack boot is torn :mad: [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/steeringboot.jpg). i dont know if i wanna pull my rack out. leaks galore [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/leak1.jpg) [pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/leak2.jpg) [pic3] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/steeringboot1.jpg)
called it a night cause i got too pissed.
2 more hours today. got the front turbo out with little trouble [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontout.jpg). here is it beside the 15g [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/9b15gcompare.jpg). stripped 6/8 precat studs lol [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/strippedstuds.jpg), gonna have to grab new ones. rear turbo is still stuck in there [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearnotout.jpg) until i can figure out how to remove the precat to get to the bottom 2 exhaust bolts. thanks mitsu for great design. couldnt get the exhaust bolts off cause to reach it extension is too far and no torque on it. those 2 bolts are the only things left for the rear to come out.
another couple hours today.
got the rear turbo out by some miracle. pulled out the chra first and somehow broke the exhaust bolts from underneath. precat is still in there.
pulled the rear motor mount out [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearmountout.jpg), this was a big PIA for rhd with the steering column being on that side will all the power steering lines, im thinking of deleting power steering now...anyways, compare with new mount [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearmountcompare.jpg) and new one in [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/rearmountin.jpg). pulled the front one out [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontmountout.jpg). compare with new one [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontmountcompare.jpg). had to modify to make it fit [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontmountmod.jpg), and finally in [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/frontmountin.jpg).
overall good progress today. gonna go after deleting the abs system tomorrow while i wait for my gaskets to come in. speaking of which there is a new mitsu dealership that just opened up in surrey right off of 152 exit gonna go check it out to order some studs&tb gasket.
went to the new mitsu dealer in surrey, ordered some parts [tb gasket, nuts, studs]. apparently theyve been there since january? anyways im happy there is a mitsu dealer so close to me now.
my turbo gaskets arrived today. talk about hidden costs ...$100. the mr cable also came in [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/mrcable.jpg). this is what it will look like once i throw it in [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/mrcable1.jpg). the xtd pp came in also [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/pp1.jpg)[pic2] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/pp2.jpg), the face makes me a little nervous cause it looks like a refurbished stocker and its back just painted. i guess ill will find out once i throw it in.
taking a break today so i just soaked all the brake lines again in pb blaster. the abs system is going to be replaced with this [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/brakelines.jpg) its a non abs system from my parts car from the summer.
got all the abs stuff out today. that was a bitch and a half. my advice is to do it with the engine out.
nest of brake lines and a pump that weighs like 20lbs. hell even the abs prop valve is like 2lbs heavier than the non abs prop valve. will try to finish it up tomorrow and post pics.
well didnt finish today. of the 10 fittings i got 5 on, gave up for the rest of the day to rest. its like each time i do something new on the car it becomes the most PIA thing ive done on it. should've just left the abs system alone...oh well next time.
surreal
06-07-11, 05:22 PM
oh man ... should have warned you :p
i tried to do the abs delete with the engine in the car and decided that it was almost impossible to do with oem lines without kinking and bending the crap out of them. if you already have most items out of the engine bay anyway, its almost worth pulling the engine...
anyway good luck with the project. keep up the updates!
i wanted to do it sometime, and since i was doing rear turbo i thought it was perfect time to do rear mount&abs delete. its not that its hard, it just takes alot of patients. lots of swearing and taking breaks.
so i finally finished the brake lines today awww yeaaa. bled the system and it feels very nice, ill do a review once the car is on the road. the nest of lines that is the abs system [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/abssystem.jpg). new prop valve [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/nonabspropvalve.jpg). a look at the left of the engine bay [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/nonabsinstall.jpg) looking very simple. and finally, no pump :) [pic1] (http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/abspumpgone.jpg).
had a go at the radiator to try to swap the ac fan into the main fan spot, mounting points are different and i believe the way the fans turn on are different as well [one power switched, the other ground switched]. i dont know if i want to go through with it...it will save about a pound or so and give more room up front, we will see. probably decide after i get my turbos in.
started on putting the front turbo in, one of the threading on the turbine housing stripped right at its start [like 2 threads] :mad: pulled it back on and called it a day. im not sure what ill do about it. either force thread it and hope it seals or swap turbine housings and order a bunch of studs which will take another 2 or so weeks :(
LondonStealth
06-08-11, 05:07 PM
Try running a thread die on it! They are bastards to get off the housing, I ended up drilling a couple of mine out and putting heli-coils in. Good luck!
yeah thats what im thinking of trying first. i got a bunch of thread taps at work im gonna bring home sunday and see if any fit.
well tapping it didnt work so i did a nut+bolt combo. front turbo is in&done minus the all the nuts, the ones i got were the wrong size so i reordered those. next time im off im gonna throw the rear turbo in and get everything back together while i wait for those nuts. my nut breaker for the rear precat stay bolt is too big and wont fit so im gonna throw the turbo back in the same way i took it out and i should be fine. fingers crossed for first start up on the week of the 27th.
so frustrating waiting on parts to come in so you can finish something up.
had a good day today.
went to torque the front nut+bolt combo down on the manifold and it snapped. after lots of swearing just decided to pull the turbo out. swapped turbine housing&studs with my old one and put it back in. pia. front turbo is ready to go. again.
couldnt get the rear turbo on with the precat still there. grabbed me a rotary tool from tool store and went to town on the rear precat stay nut. after snapping 3 disks finally got it off, fuckin rights :D hurled that thing half way across the neighborhood. went to town on the rear turbo, put it back in same way i took it out. turbine housing first, oil return while chra in engine bay (pia) then chra into housing, then wastegate (pia), then back below for oil return which i lost the bolts for but lucky enough i had some spares from all my deletes.
put all my intake piping back on and did a pressure test. held 8psi. got a big leak somewhere around the tb but its not the gasket, will go at it again tomorrow. checked wastegate actuation@6psi and good to go [they are from my old turbos].
put in the mr throttle cable as well, looks nice. although a bitch to get at cause of its location on the firewall going to gas pedal.
so basically whats left to start the car up: pressure test to 20psi, precat nuts [still waiting on], oil, and coolant. fuck the downpipe for now.
tl;dr: waiting on precat nuts to start the car up, everything else back together
surreal
06-23-11, 10:46 AM
nice job dude
almost there...
so the leak is coming from behind the tb spring, im assuming its the butterfly valve shaft. actually im pretty sure it is. fuk. ill wait till i throw the clutch in to rebuild it at the same time. was able to hold some 11psi this time :o with my little compressor running out of steam to keep up.
filled oil back up, went to fill coolant and noticed i cant reach the front precat nuts -_- sob. pulled the rad back out and just waiting on those dam nuts. starting work tomorrow for another 4 days again, if the nuts come in im gonna start it up first day im off.
i also just realized i shouldve put rtv on the oil return line bolts before putting them into the pan, oh well. if it leaks ill pull them back off.
also noticed my transfer case was leaking from the breather tube again so filled it back up. only lost about 100cc
LondonStealth
06-24-11, 07:42 AM
I had the same leak on my throttle body... just have to replace the o-ring on the shaft. Not too hard to do!
And yes you need the rad out to get at the front pre-cat.... it sucks!
so i got impatient and went to the hardware store for the nuts.
good news,
we are in business
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9803/jun29002.jpg
here is the start up after priming the turbos:
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/th_jun29001.jpg (http://s368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/rez604/build/?action=view¤t=jun29001.mp4)
this is open precats. already i was starting to sense something is wrong. i can barely hear the turbos spooling when revving. with the 9bs slightest throttle tap you could hear them like a diesel open precats.
also you cant see it in the vid but both were smoking pretty heavy from leftover stuff getting burnt off.
and now the bad news...
i cant boost past waste gate. both turbos [rear way more] smoke after doing a pull just like it is burning oil off the housing when you first start it. looking at the exhaust fumes its too close to call it anything, however it does smoke [precipitation or oil not sure...] i dont know if its a placebo effect now or what seeing the puff of smoke and the turbo smoking. only thing i checked was pulling the rear charge pipe off and there was no oil. i have a feeling both turbos are blowing oil past the turbine seals into the exhaust :mad:
im pretty pissed. i know for sure i can hold atleast 11psi [from the pressure testing]. turning the controller up did nothing. car feels like a slouch too :\
im trying to decide what course of action i should take now...
LondonStealth
06-30-11, 03:09 PM
That's not good man! The one's I bought off 3si.org blew oil out the exhaust but not into the intake piping. There was alot of play though in them. They did however make decent boost (13 psi). And mine only blew smoke when you got into the throttle. At idle and under mild load they seemed fine.
See if you can find a local turbo guy and have him look at them for you. He will be able to tell you if they are good or bad fairly quickly.
Good Luck
surreal
06-30-11, 05:16 PM
ouch. so close...
werent these fresh turbos?
did they spin freely with your fingers?
no shaft play?
no oil in the comp housings?
tried disconnecting the wgs?
are they spitting blue smoke? smells like burning oil?
ok so rebuilt the throttle body today and went for another run. still 6psi...so i came back and pulled the lines off the wastegates. finally some boost, spike to 13psi and raising very fast and so i let off. now i think something is up with my boost controller =.=
at the same time, im so paranoid, im sure im seeing little blue smoke coming out when i rev the car and then release [on the release] i can smell it too but i dont know if its placebo...sigh...i need someone to follow me on a drive and let me know.
i think smoke coming out the engine bay is done, i think it was just the pearl silver coating on the turbine housings burning off.
That's not good man! The one's I bought off 3si.org blew oil out the exhaust but not into the intake piping. There was alot of play though in them. They did however make decent boost (13 psi). And mine only blew smoke when you got into the throttle. At idle and under mild load they seemed fine.
See if you can find a local turbo guy and have him look at them for you. He will be able to tell you if they are good or bad fairly quickly.
Good Luck
i REALLY want to avoid pulling them off again. if i have to the car is gonna sit for a couple weeks before i go at it again, im just tired of working on it.
ouch. so close...
werent these fresh turbos?
did they spin freely with your fingers?
no shaft play?
no oil in the comp housings?
tried disconnecting the wgs?
are they spitting blue smoke? smells like burning oil?
"fresh turbos" from timpl3kgt or w.e. his name is on 3si, turbos by turbo bob of midwest turbo
they did spin freely before putting them in, havent pulled intake pipes off to check since.
very minor shaft play, like 1mm? i was assuming oil pressure would take care of that [like there wasnt enough to rub the compressor on the housing or anything.]
there is no oil in the comp housing or charge pipes anymore and i checked as far as the ypipe. oh and im not burning any oil either from checking dipstick.
i disconnected the wastegates today, boost shot up to 13psi half throttle at around 3000rpm before i let off [short street].
the color and smell is what im stuck on. i know what burning oil looks and smells like but im still unsure of mine right now...
my conclusion so far is to get someone behind me while i drive for a second opinion
so i got 2 buddys to ride behind me while we went out [2 seperate occasions] and watch for smoke.
one said there was tiny bit of smoke when varying rpm rapidly like when downshifting to do a pull but nothing during or after the pull. i went up and downhill with him behind me varying rpms gears and load.
the other said he didnt notice anything out of the ordinary puffs here and there. ive got no cats and injecting meth.
both these guys know what they are talking about.
so at this point i think im gonna run it till i get concrete proof they are messed to pull them out cause they seem to be working fine.
cars feels very nice at 12psi regulated by my foot lol
i gotta recal both my boost controller and wideband, both of them are acting weird. got super lifter tick too, gotta do a couple oil changes.
im off to the track next time i get a chance [which might be next friday or friday after when all the supras are there for PACNW gathering.]
next up will be fuel pump and pressure plate after i have some fun (maybe next month or something) i just really miss driving this car and want to keep it on the road for a bit :)
1991MitsuGTOVR4
07-02-11, 07:05 PM
if you want a third opinion im happy to help. and you say im worse when it comes to stuff like that haha
so i got 2 buddys to ride behind me while we went out [2 seperate occasions] and watch for smoke.
one said there was tiny bit of smoke when varying rpm rapidly like when downshifting to do a pull but nothing during or after the pull. i went up and downhill with him behind me varying rpms gears and load.
the other said he didnt notice anything out of the ordinary puffs here and there. ive got no cats and injecting meth.
both these guys know what they are talking about.
so at this point i think im gonna run it till i get concrete proof they are messed to pull them out cause they seem to be working fine.
cars feels very nice at 12psi regulated by my foot lol
i gotta recal both my boost controller and wideband, both of them are acting weird. got super lifter tick too, gotta do a couple oil changes.
im off to the track next time i get a chance [which might be next friday or friday after when all the supras are there for PACNW gathering.]
next up will be fuel pump and pressure plate after i have some fun (maybe next month or something) i just really miss driving this car and want to keep it on the road for a bit :)
haha youll say ill need a new engine+dr1000's
sent you a pm
so the turbos seemed to have calmed down, not getting any blue smoke anymore and accidentally boosted to 18psi so i know they are fine now. im just surprised how quiet they are compared to 9b.
went to the track last night to try to tune a little bit but my boost controller would not work so i ran wastegate once and open wastegates rest of the night trying to regulate boost with throttle. that did not work at all, 40% throttle 6-15psi all over the place. did not even get one clean run in. gonna try to troubleshoot the controller next week, might just grab an mbc.
surreal
07-09-11, 04:26 PM
sounds promising.
are you still using the evc3? thought that you had it in and working prior to the turbo upgrade. seems strange that it would randomly quit on you.
i know right? i took a quick look over it yesterday and everything was correctly setup. ill have to dig deeper when im off again. still the same evc3 no changes.
since the last update, the boost controller is working again after messing with it. i dont know what its problem was. set at 14psi and its holding to redline. feels very nice so far, no more 9b drop off. learning lots about tuning. im pretty sure ive found the limit of the stock fuel pump as right around 5000 i go lean a bit and its causing knock. im using meth to compensate a little for this now until i get the supra pump in. not gonna up the boost anymore till then. still gotta put in my clutch too but i dont see any sign of slipping yet on the stocker.
ill see if i can get some exterior shots of the car this weekend just to show you guys the number of different changes its had since ive owned it. i must have changed the rear end like 3 or 4 times.
picturesssss
this is when i first got her, threw some super advans on her:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3003/abc025.jpg
then i got my hands on a 98sl so i converted her
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9621/frontend005.jpg
and this is how she sits now with the 006's
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2443/sept4001.jpg
ive messed with her rear end a couple times too
at first:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/378/abc013i.jpg
then the conversion
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2690/gto2d.jpg
and as she sits now
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9663/sept4002.jpg
im still on the lookout for 2G side skirts before i do a full proper paint job on her. [or say fuck it, drive her to the ground and get another one to start fresh]
surreal
09-04-11, 10:39 PM
looks good!
front bumper paint ties in well with the blacktop. no love for the aa spoiler eh? haha
so youre running 450s with hotwired stock pump and safc with wbo2?
stock rail pressure? do you have a fuel pres gauge hooked up?
are you sure that the idc is pretty much maxed out @ 5k rpm on 14psi? i found that i also needed to add a lot of fuel right after 5k so it might just be the stock ecu fuel tables.
thanks man.
AA was one of the things to go for weight ;)
so youre running 450s with hotwired stock pump and safc with wbo2?
stock rail pressure? do you have a fuel pres gauge hooked up?
yes, for now. im just being lazy with the pump i have a supra pump ready to drop in. and i think im gonna jump up to 550's soon too. stock rail pressure/stock fpr. i do not have a fp gauge.
are you sure that the idc is pretty much maxed out @ 5k rpm on 14psi? i found that i also needed to add a lot of fuel right after 5k so it might just be the stock ecu fuel tables.
i tried adding fuel as well, afr in the low 10's but i know 99% sure its the pump that cant keep up. i will know 100% soon as the supra pump goes in.
surreal
09-07-11, 07:55 AM
low 10s afr is pretty rich... i cant imagine that causing knock?
either way, new pump is a good idea
planning to take it back to the track with the 15gs anytime soon?
funny enough if you go too rich it can cause knock. i tried a range between 10.1 up to 11. looking over Ray Pampena's posts on 3si he usually runs ~10.5 afr on cast cranks as a safe tune.
i will be taking it back to the track as soon as i get a free friday night. im working friday nights so far and plans always come up. i promise a track time and a dyno sheet soon as i get everything dialed in&ironed out.
surreal
09-08-11, 05:26 PM
i thought you mentioned that the knock was from going lean
either way, interested to see some new track times with the added power!
any interior shots?
yeah what i meant to say was seeing that it was going lean for a split second i tried richining that area up even down to 10:1 and still wasnt fixing it hence why i suspect fuel pressure[flow] not keeping up due to pump.
anything specific you want to see on the interior? regular interior with 99 steerwheel, boost gauge, and a couple cables sticking out for my loggers. oh and gutted rear. nothing special.
:mad: went to do fuel pump today and i fucked up.
everything was going smooth until i went to tighten the (+) terminal under the hat and it snapped clean off. drilled a hole through it and just left it for now, got too frustrated. probably gonna feed a wire through or something. any suggestions? solder wouldnt stick to the hat.
funny 93TT_Vancity dropped by and i was laughing with him about something always going wrong when working on these cars and sure enough...
93TT VanCity
09-13-11, 09:36 PM
When I stopped at Rez's place everything seemed to be going pretty smoothly. I must have jinxed it or something - sorry Rez!
Rez's GTO is gonna be badass - I hope he is going to have it ready for a few passes at Mission before the season is done. Very nice to meet a fellow 3/S enthusiast, and one who is obviously very passionate about the platform; not to mention a really nice guy to boot.
thanks for the kind words. nice to have good people such as your self with great example of a 3S on this platform.
you didnt jinx me it was my own fault being careless and trying to finish fast due to excitement.
im gonna hit the track soon as the pump is done, on the stock clutch [dont have enough spare time to do it this season]. looks like either the 30th sept or the 7th of oct are the only ones i could make it to. fingers crossed for decent weather¬hing going wrong before then.
got the pump back in, transferred hotwire over and adjusted safc on idle. no leaks and runs good. gonna wait for this rain to stop to go for a couple runs to make sure everything is good. gonna turn it up till the clutch starts slipping and back it off a couple psi.
im off to the drag strip on the 30th pending weather :)
havent decided on dyno date yet. can do before october with stock clutch or november after clutch.
1991MitsuGTOVR4
09-18-11, 06:14 PM
sounds like everything is finally coming together, excited for you man! definitely interested in the track and dyno results.
heres a little teaser of what im rolling around in these days
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu310/timdorin610/300597_10150794514005585_548605584_20844335_227578 6_n.jpg
sick 240, will you be back in vancouver next friday or the week after?
1991MitsuGTOVR4
09-23-11, 05:37 PM
ill be back oct.7 for the thanksgiving weekend
so last night after coming home i went out to finish my tune for the stock clutch in prep for the track.
smelling fuel in the cabin but there is no leak in any of my lines. im thinking it might be the pump hanger gasket.
anyways the tune:
14psi, 10.5 AFR, 15deg timing across the board seems to be the limit. 315cc of 50/50 meth/water full blast 6psi onwards. hitting 80% IDC. anything more and it slips like no tomorrow. evoscan says i picked up about 40whp compared to before after i finished. my timing map however switched to the lower one instead of the preferred one in the ecu so gotta reset that.
some notes&things i noticed,
back to back runs made knock come up due to heat soak. looks like these dsm sidemounts arent that much of an improvement after all. oh well.
timing retard due to knock kills power tremendously. more timing &less boost made way more power than the other way around. tuning on the brink of 1/2 count knock makes really good power too. leaning on the lower RPM, and having my lo/hi point set at 25&40% helped alot with spool. also ray pampenas posts on 3si are a gold mine.
i looked over my inj flow sheet and noticed they only flow 400cc max, son of a...im now planning on stepping up to 550cc inj for more timing & my 600cc/min meth nozzle.
the supra pump works great, AFRs are rock solid. AFPR totally unnecessary as you can tune out the idle overrun.
keep a close eye/nose over your oil during tuning. slightest hint of gas change the oil. plugs also tell a good story too on the combustion.
afterwards i brought her home for inspection. getting some wierd screeching noise every now and then, i think its the alternator bearing giving out. changed the oil and took a sample to send to blackstone for analysis. checked around down there and found my rear turbo oil return line leaking onto my downpipe. gotta pull it off and rtv the threads. also found my tcase spewing more fluid through its breather. checked level and was fine. gonna keep an eye on it. fingers crossed for good weather this friday :)
93TT VanCity
09-26-11, 10:07 AM
Hopefully see you at the track on Friday. Good luck getting those last few things cleared up for what is likely the last race weekend of the season.
so last night after coming home i went out to finish my tune for the stock clutch in prep for the track.
smelling fuel in the cabin but there is no leak in any of my lines. im thinking it might be the pump hanger gasket.
anyways the tune:
14psi, 10.5 AFR, 15deg timing across the board seems to be the limit. 315cc of 50/50 meth/water full blast 6psi onwards. hitting 80% IDC. anything more and it slips like no tomorrow. evoscan says i picked up about 40whp compared to before after i finished. my timing map however switched to the lower one instead of the preferred one in the ecu so gotta reset that.
some notes&things i noticed,
back to back runs made knock come up due to heat soak. looks like these dsm sidemounts arent that much of an improvement after all. oh well.
timing retard due to knock kills power tremendously. more timing &less boost made way more power than the other way around. tuning on the brink of 1/2 count knock makes really good power too. leaning on the lower RPM, and having my lo/hi point set at 25&40% helped alot with spool. also ray pampenas posts on 3si are a gold mine.
i looked over my inj flow sheet and noticed they only flow 400cc max, son of a...im now planning on stepping up to 550cc inj for more timing & my 600cc/min meth nozzle.
the supra pump works great, AFRs are rock solid. AFPR totally unnecessary as you can tune out the idle overrun.
keep a close eye/nose over your oil during tuning. slightest hint of gas change the oil. plugs also tell a good story too on the combustion.
afterwards i brought her home for inspection. getting some wierd screeching noise every now and then, i think its the alternator bearing giving out. changed the oil and took a sample to send to blackstone for analysis. checked around down there and found my rear turbo oil return line leaking onto my downpipe. gotta pull it off and rtv the threads. also found my tcase spewing more fluid through its breather. checked level and was fine. gonna keep an eye on it. fingers crossed for good weather this friday :)
If it doesn't work, I have a engine that will put you in the 10's ;)
If it doesn't work, I have a engine that will put you in the 10's ;)
i would if i could afford it lol
mallozzi
09-27-11, 11:31 PM
I think it also has to do with building your own motor, not saying anything wrong with yours, it just feels better when built not bought!
completely agree mallozzi.
so just got back from the track. not happy with the results.
only got 3 runs in before calling it quits due to detonation. best of the night 13.18@104 1.9 60' with ~20 knock count! this is at 13psi. was really hoping to up the boost to break into mid 12s by the end of the night but no luck.
could not shake the knock off all night, have no idea wtf is going on. on the street i can do a clean 3rd gear pull 0 knock but for some reason i kept hitting 15+ counts none stop. even afr of 10.2 didnt clear it. stock clutch held fine though funny enough.
my last run i spun the front tires like no tomorrow from the car squating and did a 2.2sec 60' -_-'. its pretty evident too, car pulls like crazy then knock kicks in and cuts timing and the car just falls flat on its face.
anyways im reviewing my logs right now and trying to figure this out. couple thoughts are: physical timing might be off or cam tooth, plugs too hot, not enough meth, bearing s might be on their way out
any advice would be welcomed
im going to be gone for about a month so the car will be sitting. ill get back to wrenching/tuning when i get back.
im going to be gone for about a month so the car will be sitting. ill get back to wrenching/tuning when i get back.
You should go with my TD05! It doesn't matter how big the TD04 are you are still creating friction and that is heat. it's nice to have presure, but to much presure create more hot air. With the TD05 setup you get the pesure, but most important, the volume. The more you put in, more need to come out. This applies to every one out there trying to make more power. Yes you all increase your compressor side, but you are limited by the turbine side!!!
got my oil analysis report. results are...not reassuring. the oil itself is good, but my results are not.
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2184/oilreport.jpg
iron and especially copper are high. gonna send them another sample in about 1000km to see if the copper wear still high, if so looks like time to get a new short block before this one spins a bearing.
1991MitsuGTOVR4
11-01-11, 01:00 PM
im sure my numbers would be similar. gto doesnt seem to be knocking as much these days, but its sure nice to have a 2nd car haha. ill be back on the mainland nov 8th for reading break if you want to meet up or anything
yea man definitely come out, go for a drink and catch up. im starting to look for a forged crank block to get ready or even another gto? wanna sell me yours lol
1991MitsuGTOVR4
11-04-11, 08:08 PM
yea man definitely come out, go for a drink and catch up. im starting to look for a forged crank block to get ready or even another gto? wanna sell me yours lol
sounds great, ill let you know when im back. haha maybe, we'll talk
so a small update. installed a scanmaster for live non-stop monitoring of knock (thanks to fou for the deal). will be hooking up my lc1 to it as well when i have some time.
swapped out my 315cc/min meth nozzle for a 630cc/min and almost all my knock has been wiped out. still getting 1 or 2 count here and there but looks good. car pulls really clean. clutch burning after every pull i think its about time.
doing WOT pulls in 3rd 0 knock, doing 1-2-3 pull track style i get some still have to figure it out.
tuned for 16psi, 10.1-2 afr, factory "lowered" timing map [will reset ecu to the the optimal one]. changed my safc lo/hi point to 35/55. hoping to lean it out to around 11.5 and turn it up past 20psi.
just pressed for time/weather currently. will keep at it.
edit: also waiting on my second oil report. will do another one in about 1000km again to see where i stand.
1991MitsuGTOVR4
11-29-11, 06:16 PM
so a small update. installed a scanmaster for live non-stop monitoring of knock (thanks to fou for the deal). will be hooking up my lc1 to it as well when i have some time.
swapped out my 315cc/min meth nozzle for a 630cc/min and almost all my knock has been wiped out. still getting 1 or 2 count here and there but looks good. car pulls really clean. clutch burning after every pull i think its about time.
doing WOT pulls in 3rd 0 knock, doing 1-2-3 pull track style i get some still have to figure it out.
tuned for 16psi, 10.1-2 afr, factory "lowered" timing map [will reset ecu to the the optimal one]. changed my safc lo/hi point to 35/55. hoping to lean it out to around 11.5 and turn it up past 20psi.
just pressed for time/weather currently. will keep at it.
good stuff. ill be home on the 19th
it was dry this afternoon so went for another tuning session, happy with the power results so far.
started with 363awhp@5500 and tweaked corrections here and there and ended with 402awhp@5500 [aborted run due to space].
i would like to add another 50whp from 4 till redline and ill be done.
car pulls really nice now. still getting a couple knock counts that im trying to iron out (<4). i cant seem to lean it out where i want to without knock coming back in, especially in the lower end or transitioning to WOT. gonna start the clutch swap tomorrow.
and just a side note on the safcI, it sucks when the knock is in between the ne points and you have to adjust both to get to the middle one good. if it was a safcII with more points this would be a lot smoother/easier. get the II if you can instead of the I.
LondonStealth
12-12-11, 11:50 PM
it was dry this afternoon so went for another tuning session, happy with the power results so far.
started with 363awhp@5500 and tweaked corrections here and there and ended with 402awhp@5500 [aborted run due to space].
i would like to add another 50whp from 4 till redline and ill be done.
car pulls really nice now. still getting a couple knock counts that im trying to iron out (<4). i cant seem to lean it out where i want to without knock coming back in, especially in the lower end or transitioning to WOT. gonna start the clutch swap tomorrow.
and just a side note on the safcI, it sucks when the knock is in between the ne points and you have to adjust both to get to the middle one good. if it was a safcII with more points this would be a lot smoother/easier. get the II if you can instead of the I.
Good to know! My goal is 400AWHP with my 15G's. What else are you using on this? (intake,exhaust, injectors, fuel pump, etc)
yeah its funny how easy it is to make power with these cars, its a cookie cutter formula.
as for mods, its all up on the first page.
for power i got a knockoff aftermarket filter, ebay downpipe with 3" catback that breaks to dual 2.5" straight pipe with a massive resonator where the cat would be, dsm 400cc blacktops, supra pump hotwired, safcI, 630cc/min meth nozzle...and thats it. throwing in a xtd pressure plate with a stock clutch this week.
LondonStealth
12-15-11, 01:27 PM
cool! I've got a Walboro pump and hotwire kit sitting here ready to go as well as a 3sx fuel loop. Gonna pick up a set of 560 EVO injectors as well. I think I'm going to save my pennies this winter and buy the ARC2 kit in the spring.
That should hopefully get me there! I've already got the pre-cat eliminators, 3" downpipe and exhaust and HKS filter as well as an MBC.
good luck!
so im taking my sweet ass time doing the clutch, like putting in 2-3hrs a day. i find myself getting bored [like when you do homework] and just give up for the rest of the day. did i mention how PIA the ebay downpipe is?
LondonStealth
12-18-11, 08:55 PM
wonder if it's the same downpipe I have.. and if so, yes it is!!
finally feelin better, went at it a little bit today:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404457_121932961259547_100003285304008_114506_1761 887868_n.jpg
just gotta put everything back together now.
also ordered the maximal stg2 tcase brace ;)
1991MitsuGTOVR4
01-05-12, 10:23 PM
finally feelin better, went at it a little bit today:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404457_121932961259547_100003285304008_114506_1761 887868_n.jpg
just gotta put everything back together now.
also ordered the maximal stg2 tcase brace ;)
epic. this makes me want to start a build haha
ok so i put everything back together, and drove it on jackstands with the wheels off. its making some loud vacuum/raining type noise above about 40km/h, im not sure what to make of it. its definitely coming from inside the tranny. gonna have a buddy come tomorrow and drive it while i look around.
it drives fine, releases fine(neutral), goes through all gears, but above that speed it makes the noise. especially in the higher gears. its pretty loud too.
any and all ideas are welcome.
couple thoughts on what it might be:
-clutch slipping/grinding [slave not adjusted properly]
-something to do with the vcu? without wheels there is no load on the drivers side, being open diff it doesnt spin
-synchros/something grinding in transmission
but some good news, i got the coilovers in after wrestling/cutting the rear seized shock off. cant wait to see how it rides once its on the ground again.
LondonStealth
01-11-12, 10:57 PM
I would lean toward it being because you have it up in the air. I don't think that its healthy for the AWD system to do that. Put the tires on it and drive it!!
i ended up putting the tires on in the air and driving it, noise was gone.
put it on the ground and went for a drive, turning i think my dust shields are scraping my rotors. tried bending them back but still something scraping on turns. i also noticed something else making scraping noise above like 60km/h coming from somewhere in the back?
god dam this car, its one thing after another....
on a side note, im getting a gutted/modded ae86 later tonight with a 1.5way LSD ;) i miss sliding :D
1991MitsuGTOVR4
01-25-12, 11:09 PM
i ended up putting the tires on in the air and driving it, noise was gone.
put it on the ground and went for a drive, turning i think my dust shields are scraping my rotors. tried bending them back but still something scraping on turns. i also noticed something else making scraping noise above like 60km/h coming from somewhere in the back?
god dam this car, its one thing after another....
on a side note, im getting a gutted/modded ae86 later tonight with a 1.5way LSD ;) i miss sliding :D
nice!!! we'll have to go for a little slide when im home in early feb
for sure man, the thing is a riot to drive.
small update. pulled the front wheels off and bent the front dust shields back cause they were contacting the rotor behind it about 1/4 way down, that stopped the front scraping. now i got a new intermittent scrape coming from pass rear side, im thinking shield as well. will look at that later. otherwise car is back on the road and good to go :) couple hundered km break in the new pp then off to the dyno.
went for a street tune today.
fuck this car:mad:
exact same settings as last session, knock spiked up so i aborted right away and turned the boost down. this got repeated a couple times so i said fuck it back to 10psi and restarted. at one point i had 9.9afr, 18psi, 15deg and STILL got 6 count knock, are you fucking kidding me?
couldnt get over 15psi, 10.1afr without knock. i lost a good 50-75whp according to evoscan. i dont know wtf to do anymore...there is more than enough fuel, my timing is low, ive got probably 100+ octane with the meth...getting very frustrated...im leaning towards some bottom end mechanical issues like loose bearing clearances or something causing the knock. are my lifters noisy? carrier bearings? exhaust leak? you tell me.
LondonStealth
02-08-12, 12:26 AM
There is alot of stuff I have been reading on 3si.org about knock. Alot of the guys are ignoring anything below like 7-10 counts as they are attributing it to "phantom" knock.
There is a really good article on there that someone posted about knock and pre-ignition.
But it seems like anything from aftermarket intakes to bad engine mounts can give you knock readings.
There is alot of stuff I have been reading on 3si.org about knock. Alot of the guys are ignoring anything below like 7-10 counts as they are attributing it to "phantom" knock.
There is a really good article on there that someone posted about knock and pre-ignition.
But it seems like anything from aftermarket intakes to bad engine mounts can give you knock readings.
im in the same boat, ive read so many threads over there about tuning. ive come up with a huge list of things that can cause false knock but i think this is real knock just by the fact that if i turn the boost down i can wipe it out completely, leading me to think that something is wrong in the bottom end.
got an appointment on the dyno tomorrow :D wish me luck guys
gonna be tuning it myself, do some baseline pulls starting at 6psi then start turning it up. this will be my first round of dyno tuning to see where im at. if i got time i got a gutted mas as well i will swap in just to mess around. i will also be messing with the base timing and let you guys know how that goes too. basically a big research session :D
i bought a gm maf setup and 550 injectors as well that i will install for the next time i return to the dyno.
going in with low expectations, hoping for atleast 300whp for this round and be able to drive the car home lol
edit: oh also gonna take a 9966 usdm ecu with me if i have time to swap for more research
just got back from the dyno. im satisfied, but dissapointed. satisfied cause i met my goal and was able to drive it home (lol) but dissapointed cause i wanted to push it much further (like 100whp more).
1st run 6psi - 208awhp/210awtq
9psi 216/240
12psi 277/274
13psi 290/292
14psi 301/306
15psi 310/322
16psi knock-aborted, couldnt shake it off
15psi tweaked final run 326/317
this was with low 10 afrs
i didnt get a chance to swap ecu or try out the different mafs, i didnt even have time to mess with the base timing. i will do that next time. gonna do more research on the street to figure out this knock before going back again.
first post will be updated with info/graphs soon as i get the final run emailed to me.
1991MitsuGTOVR4
03-13-12, 08:26 PM
great stuff. definitely keep updating
swapped out the ecu today with a 9966 (fed spec vr4), some interesting finds. car started and ran fine so i turned off the meth and turned the boost down to wastegate. first pull no knock, ok, turn up to 10psi, another pull no knock, oooo i might be on to something here (9964 knocked in the teens at 10psi). turned up to 12psi, minor knock(9964 knocks in the 20+ range here for reference). pulled over looked at log. running too lean (like 1afr too lean) in the knock spots, noticed the timing is WAY lower across the board compared to 9964. im talking like 10deg in some spots, avg of 5deg and the same in other spots. cross referenced with the timing maps posted, and look at that, exactly on the marks. but of course with less timing the car is much slower.
then as always something goes wrong lol
my idle started acting up, bouncing between 15-2200rpm...wtf? pull over try to figure it out and nothing. leaned out the idle a bit..ok...get back on the road, starts to rain..fuuuu...idle bouncing is now gone. now idle is at 1300 steady. get her home and call it a day.
im gonna get this idle issue figured out and get back to researching, god dam this city and its non stop rain. i THINK its all clear to me now, it has been the timing all this time from the 9964 ecu. more next time. i can see good power with meth once this is tuned properly :D
fixed the idle issue, replaced a capacitor in the ecu.
this is childs play now, its not even funny. so easy to tune. 14psi no meth no knock. compare to jdm 15psi 630cc/min meth with minor knock. i cannot wait to throw on the gm maf/maft and turn the meth on :D im tempted to throw in the 550cc injectors as well but first i want to see how far i can push these dsm blacktops. matt m got them to 121mph in the quarter! gonna see if i can hit the dyno this week or next week again.
TT Eric
03-19-12, 02:20 PM
15G + meth I would go for 450cc. 550cc are a bit too big, it will ramp your timing too high, even with meth.
450cc alone are good for 450WHP, + meth it will be good for around 500WHP.
550cc alone are good for 550WHP, + meth = 600WHP.
You always go for the ball park power you are going to make for injectors. Too big injectors = less power because of timing induce knock.
Been there, done the same mistake.
Eric
1991MitsuGTOVR4
03-19-12, 10:08 PM
fixed the idle issue, replaced a capacitor in the ecu.
this is childs play now, its not even funny. so easy to tune. 14psi no meth no knock. compare to jdm 15psi 630cc/min meth with minor knock. i cannot wait to throw on the gm maf/maft and turn the meth on :D im tempted to throw in the 550cc injectors as well but first i want to see how far i can push these dsm blacktops. matt m got them to 121mph in the quarter! gonna see if i can hit the dyno this week or next week again.
so glad youre making this progress!! sounds like i need to do the same to get rid of my knock.. almost wanna get rid of this 240 and work on the gto hahaha
Eric, you are right on the money!
Tim, i was also thinking... why switch ecu? i read a couple posts by pampena on 3si about using the cas as timing control on 1st gens. an easy way would be to just pull our timing back to say...0deg base, leave the ecu in, cut the speed pin (for the limiter), tune&start to turn the timing back up till you hit knock then back it off again. we will probably end up with about 1-2deg base. which is completely fine cause the car advances timing too much bringing it back to normal levels. im thinking about reverting back to my jdm ecu now cause of this.
--------
i installed the maft in draw-through a couple days ago and have been playing with it, man what a head ace to get going right.
first i had a problem of the barometric sensor on it shorting causing my ecu to think i was at like 15000ft, fucking with my timing. then i had cold start and idle issues again. i fixed the baro short, and after a couple days of messing with it FINALLY got it to idle decent but it still starts funny. then i did some wot and because my low was running so rich my plugs fouled and now im getting spark blowout(ive changed the oil to be safe). to give you guys an idea, here are my settings right now:
before: safc only
L30/H40-15psi,jdm ecu,630ccmeth,10s afr
1 -22/-19
2 -22/-18
3 -17/-13
4 -17/-13
45 -22/-15
5 -22/-14
6 -17/-17
7 -18/-18
after: maft@360cc-zero rest+safc
L30/H40-10psi,usdm ecu,0meth,10s afr
1 -5/-5
2 -5/-5
3 -5/+4
4 -10/+5
45-10/+5
5 -10/+1
6 -6/+0
7 -6/+0
that looks real suspicious to me, but i tuned by wideband+logger sensors so i dont know if the maft is messing with me...going to change the plugs/pressure test and go at it again soon.
more progress :D
i was thinking about timing again...jdm has too much, usdm is too little, why not use my 93 ecu(4bolt) to get a couple extra deg but not as much as jdm. so thats what i did, swapped caps on the untouched ecu, put it in and reset the afc to -10 across the lows. then before starting i thought about low load afr's, why not lean them out to around 15. instead of fighting with the ecu, i setup my narrowband simulation to the ecu to think that 15 is 14.7, awesome love the lc1.
car started right up, no rich startup this time and as expected 14.7-15.5afr's cruising. feels so good when everything works the way it should. gonna do some 6psi pulls to setup the high throttle again before putting in the new plugs.
surreal
03-23-12, 06:50 PM
good thread. thanks for taking the time to provide updates. couple thoughts for you...
you might be thinking about the timing too much. just because your piggyback doesnt allow timing changes, doesnt mean you cant tune timing other ways.
-as mentioned, if you have a 1g cas setup, you can change base timing.
-if you have an afpr you can adjust idc via rail pressure to move yourself around within the timing tables as well.
you mentioned that you are running meth; how is it triggered? boost? if so, keep in mind that you are essentially adding one fuel source based on MAP but are tuning your fuel based on MAS (translated from MAF now it sounds like).
low 10s afrs are also extremely conservative (rich) but i assume that you are just using these for now while you get the tune sorted?
more progress :D
i was thinking about timing again...jdm has too much, usdm is too little, why not use my 93 ecu(4bolt) to get a couple extra deg but not as much as jdm. so thats what i did, swapped caps on the untouched ecu, put it in and reset the afc to -10 across the lows. then before starting i thought about low load afr's, why not lean them out to around 15. instead of fighting with the ecu, i setup my narrowband simulation to the ecu to think that 15 is 14.7, awesome love the lc1.
car started right up, no rich startup this time and as expected 14.7-15.5afr's cruising. feels so good when everything works the way it should. gonna do some 6psi pulls to setup the high throttle again before putting in the new plugs.
Noticed your LC1 set for simulation, where is the location of the wideband O2?
Noticed your LC1 set for simulation, where is the location of the wideband O2?
in the stock jdm location, right after the downpipe merger.
good thread. thanks for taking the time to provide updates. couple thoughts for you...
you might be thinking about the timing too much. just because your piggyback doesnt allow timing changes, doesnt mean you cant tune timing other ways.
-as mentioned, if you have a 1g cas setup, you can change base timing.
-if you have an afpr you can adjust idc via rail pressure to move yourself around within the timing tables as well.
you mentioned that you are running meth; how is it triggered? boost? if so, keep in mind that you are essentially adding one fuel source based on MAP but are tuning your fuel based on MAS (translated from MAF now it sounds like).
low 10s afrs are also extremely conservative (rich) but i assume that you are just using these for now while you get the tune sorted?
i think that will be the next step once i start pushing this setup (usdm+maft+meth) is to play with the base timing, keeping it simple.
the meth is off now, but before i had it triggered at 6psi full blast. it is simple and effective, ive played around with it to understand its effects. im gonna get a pump tune going first (just to compare to previous setup) before turning it on again.
the afrs were 10 before cause any leaner caused knock (due to high timing) and now its still in 10s due to my old tune, i will adjust it according to knock.
i hope everyone is at least learning something from my trials&research, its been a very bumpy ride lol
surreal
03-25-12, 02:32 AM
the issue youll likely see with having the meth come on so early with your setup is that it will be very hard to tune for.
think of meth as adding fuel based on boost (6psi onward). you need to tune fuel to compensate for the meth. however, with the safc you are tuning fuel based on rpm, not boost.
so youll need to use the safc to compensate for the meth using rpm... the meth, however, could come on at almost any rpm depending on engine load...
the issue youll likely see with having the meth come on so early with your setup is that it will be very hard to tune for.
think of meth as adding fuel based on boost (6psi onward). you need to tune fuel to compensate for the meth. however, with the safc you are tuning fuel based on rpm, not boost.
so youll need to use the safc to compensate for the meth using rpm... the meth, however, could come on at almost any rpm depending on engine load...
Very useful tip, you should activate your meth higher in the boost range where your SAFC will be on it's high trims and the ECU on closed loop.
very good points Surreal.
my experience with the meth has been really good, i have no complaints. it lowered my afr by about 0.2 when it hits and when it hits im in wot so im not worried about it coming on when i dont want it to. i will be however playing with the point it comes on again, i think somewhere around 11-13psi will be optimal for my setup.
but thats later, im currently dealing with this dam maft startup issue. its running super rich on cold startup for like 30sec-1min before settling into to stoich and its fouling my plugs. everywhere else its fine. if you guys have any suggestions please share. im going to be checking a bunch of things soon.
TT Eric
03-27-12, 09:43 AM
I start injecting around 12psi!
Eric
did i tell you guys how much i love rain? -_- anyway...
so i ended up pulling the maft out for now, i really didnt like the low load driveability of it. i might try it out again after. stock mas is back in now.
ive replaced the 9966 ecu with the 0663 ecu for the little bit of extra timing and its running really good.
i ended up getting what i thought was blow out which turned out to be my controller solenoid sticking/leaking. my boost would jump up and down after wastegate. thanks to my boost gauge and logger for notifying me of that one. replaced my plugs, gapped to 28thousands and installed an mbc for now. took my ebc apart and cleaned it up, i might run it again later.
the plan now is to go street tune the 0663 ecu+stock mas+meth, then swap in the gutted mas, then hit the dyno again (possibly with the maft).
update time :D
since last time i went for another tuning session since it was nice out.
started with the stock mas, then quickly moved on to my gutted mas, then once i got that going good turned the base timing back ~1-1.5deg and turned the meth on. the conclusion of the day was 20psi, proper a/f, decent timing = butt dyno sais much faster. timing is about 3-4 deg less all around, will 5more psi&proper afr net me more power than the timing? only the dyno will tell.
on wed i will be going to japan for a month [going to see pitroadM!!!] and wont be doing any updates until i come back sometime in late may/june.
mission raceway will be open by then :D i promise another dyno&track time soon as i get back.
just got home from a "dyno day" (no tuning allowed) and thought i would update quick before i head out.
i did 310whp/320wtq this time with 20psi spike down to 16psi by redline (boost leak) and 11.5-9.9-10.3afr with base timing at 3deg.
to compare, 330whp with 15psi & 5deg base.
you can see from my research now with proven results that timing makes way more power than boost on td04's.
this was with a gutted mas and the 0663 ecu.
for comparison, a c5 vette with exhaust did 260whp, a stock sti did 205whp, a modified 240 did 395rwhp (this car did 520whp on a dyno jet).
ill post up my detailed findings for everyone to read/learn once i get back from my trip.
i got my blackstone analysis back today with good news so one last update before i go.
the copper/lead wear is much lower now, molyb&zinc are increasing, 0 fuel/coolant/insolubles in the oil, etc. etc. in other words the engine is healthy&running better, the oil is doing great.
im gonna beat the shit out of it when i get back :D
small update/teaser post now that im back.
ive dialed in a 17psi tune on both the 9966 ecu and 9964 ecu with meth with the gutted mas, i will be hitting the track tomorrow to get some trap speeds with both ecu's. im hoping for 115mph.
just changed the oil to 20w50 tonight for tomorrow to see how it goes.
my hks evc has been swapped out for a used turboxs mbc, i hope it holds out (its bleeding to 14psi by redline right now). virtual dyno sais im back up to my original hp as my dyno runs.
i have a emanage blue on the way (for timing), i will also be swapping in my 550's at the same time (i hit fuel cut a couple times lol).
ill be making a big post after tomorrows track session with logs/graphs etc. about afr, timing, octane, etc. with the 3 different ecu's [ive sold the 0663].
edit: oh ive also moved my timing back to 5deg base
Vr4Much?
05-21-12, 12:26 AM
20-50 is the new 10-40 ? :)
what brand, and synthetic?
fuck this car, im almost at wits end with it.
13.6@108, 2.2sec 60f. knocking in every gear. with the 9966 ecu.
3605 race weight
im speechless...
the only good thing is it was able to drive home on its own power. the god dam boost controller was not helping either, spiking to 19psi then tapering to 14psi by redline.
emanage with timing control is going to be the final straw, if i dont get a 120mph trap next track visit then im gonna return it to stock.
you guys have no idea how frustrated i am with this thing.
20-50 is the new 10-40 ? :)
what brand, and synthetic?
no, its a personal choice.
redline 20w50, best there is :)
LondonStealth
05-21-12, 12:54 AM
no, its a personal choice.
redline 20w50, best there is :)
I used to run 20w50 but switched to 5w20
That's the only change I made and I dropped over a 1/10th of a second at the strip.
I think its just too thick!
1991MitsuGTOVR4
05-21-12, 03:18 PM
fuck this car, im almost at wits end with it.
13.6@108, 2.2sec 60f. knocking in every gear. with the 9966 ecu.
3605 race weight
im speechless...
the only good thing is it was able to drive home on its own power. the god dam boost controller was not helping either, spiking to 19psi then tapering to 14psi by redline.
emanage with timing control is going to be the final straw, if i dont get a 120mph trap next track visit then im gonna return it to stock.
you guys have no idea how frustrated i am with this thing.
That's too bad man. Hopefully you can sort things out with the emanage. I'm taking summer classes on the island so I don't know the next time I'll be back. I'd love to hit the track with you sometime though.
surreal
05-21-12, 03:44 PM
fuck this car, im almost at wits end with it.
13.6@108, 2.2sec 60f. knocking in every gear. with the 9966 ecu.
3605 race weight
im speechless...
the only good thing is it was able to drive home on its own power. the god dam boost controller was not helping either, spiking to 19psi then tapering to 14psi by redline.
emanage with timing control is going to be the final straw, if i dont get a 120mph trap next track visit then im gonna return it to stock.
you guys have no idea how frustrated i am with this thing.
you using the 550s now?
what idcs?
meth?
base timing?
stock base fp?
you using the 550s now?
what idcs?
meth?
base timing?
stock base fp?
no still on the 450s (which actually only flow 400) - im suspicious of these
idc in the 90s, i hit 95-99% true idc on the top end
630cc/min meth coming on at 6psi
base timing 5deg
stock regulator
stock timing, afrs in the low 10s by redline to keep knock away
surreal
05-22-12, 12:54 AM
no still on the 450s (which actually only flow 400) - im suspicious of these
idc in the 90s, i hit 95-99% true idc on the top end
630cc/min meth coming on at 6psi
base timing 5deg
stock regulator
stock timing, afrs in the low 10s by redline to keep knock away
these are dsm 450s? why only flowing 400cc?
95% idc with 630cc of meth and only at 14psi...
upgraded and hotwired fuel pump too im assuming?
did you log at the track when you were knocking?
if you can get this car dialed in, it should be flying...
these are dsm 450s? why only flowing 400cc?
95% idc with 630cc of meth and only at 14psi...
upgraded and hotwired fuel pump too im assuming?
did you log at the track when you were knocking?
if you can get this car dialed in, it should be flying...
yeah they are blacktops. i got them clean and flowtested, all 6 got 90% of flow=400cc. supra pump hotwired. i logged the track runs, ill post them up tomorrow night.
now do you see why im so frustrated? at minimum i should be hitting 117mph traps with 120mph being very realistic (obviously not at 14psi, but you get my point)
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